Whose Truth?

The other evening I went to an event held to give some visibility to the Glass Lake Studio (Expressive Arts Therapy Program) and to bid farewell to its founder and his wife, who are moving to Canada to join a community led by “guru” John de Ruiter.

According to de Ruiter’s site,
Canadian born John de Ruiter responds to invitations World-wide, addressing audiences from “core splitting honesty” and his unconditional way of absolute surrender and servitude to Truth.

Because I steer clear of anyone who spells Truth with a capital “T” (and run fast in the other direction from concepts like “surrender” and “servitude”), I am always a little taken aback when people who have been among my circle of friends go off to embrace such Truth so blissfully and assuredly. With the de Ruiter Truth, it’s not just the couple to whom I recently wished “safe journey.” Another couple I know — both well-trained psychologists with successful practices — have already moved, at least temporarily, north to de Ruiter’s Canadian enclave.

Without a doubt, truth is very important. Look at the mess the world is in because so many of our leaders have forgotten how to tell it. It’s interesting that de Ruiter’s wife recently left him because he is sleeping with two of his lovely blonde followers. I think that he has some sort of rationalization of the difference between his own “personal truth” (small “t”) and Ultimate Truth (capital “T”).


It all makes me stop to think about how many ways of defining “truth” there are out there. There’s scientific truth, historical truth, personal truth, mythic truth. And then there’s the capital “T” Truth, the idea of which always seems so compelling. It also tends to be the idea behind many of the most gruesome murdering sprees of mankind, from the Crusades to the war on terrorism.

Scientific truths change and evolve as new information is added to the mix. Historical truths often are a combination of actual facts colored by personal truths. It’s all so messy, so chaotic, so lacking in surety — kind of like life. To believe or not to believe. We make our choices and we take our chances.
Personally, my choice for truth usually is to try to match up my personal truths with the kinds of mythic ones that Joseph Campbell so eloquently and artfully described and analyzed in his too-soon-forgotten series of PBS programs and books. I guess it’s my way of integrating the big picture with the little picture, the personal with the planetary. Because, for me, it’s the only way for me to arrive at truths that I can count on, that provides the loom on which I can weave that chaos of science and history and personalities into the fabric of a life that I can wrap around myself for safety and sustenance.

All the rest is someone else’s truth. Someone else’s Truth.

That’s why the current American intrusion into the Middle East is so confusing to most people. (Makes you want to run way and hide in the bosom of de Ruiter Truth, doesn’t it?)
To help you get at some of the truths about Middle East Truths, you might want to link over to Bob Harris’ post on here , which begins:
It may be anything from a play for leverage in Iraq to the opening drumbeat for another war, but the White House, Rumsfeld, and Blair have all gotten on Iran’s case for allegedly harboring Al-Qaeda suspects, which supposedly even led to this week’s increased terror warning.
Iran denies the charge.
Who’s telling the truth? I don’t know. But keep reading.

It’s well-worth reading.

And to get a better fix on the continuing un-truths being thrown at us by the Bushies, check out Peter Beinart’s article in The New Republic Online that spells out “the record over the last eight months.”

Whose truth. Yes, indeed.

92 thoughts on “Whose Truth?

  1. Yikes! That guy is almost as scary as Bush, Junior. In fact, I hope I’m not offending anyone, but to me, de Ruiter kind of sounds like another Jim Jones…..Hope your friends aren’t giving him all their money, too. That would kind of clinch it, wouldn’t it?
    I wonder how much of that higher-ordained need for wordly goods the ex will get in the divorce settlement? And will she get a piece of all future shearings or will it be a one-time buy-out deal?
    God, I’m cynical.

  2. Been there. Went and watched de Ruiter glare into space for 2 full hours while woman after woman supplicated herself “at his feet”, teary-eyed, BEGGING for an answer, or some guidance for their questions. NOT ONE WORD IN 2 FULL HOURS. He failed utterly to speak even one word of reflection for these needy people coming to this self ADVERTISED guru of “Truth”. Not even an acknowledgement of the importance of their question – mere silence. Some members point out that, although John doesn’t always speak, there is always “ocular communication”, which some members say speaks much more than words. One cannot help but think, however, that if he knows an answer well enough to “transmit” it with his eyes thru silence, that he should be able to vocalize it for the benefit of these bitterly crying desperately hurt women, because they certainly weren’t “getting it”, despite their devotion to homework and paying the guru. It was cold and miserable to witness. His ego and enjoyment of denying even the barest laid souls was so incredibly evident, despite the “not-quite-pro” facial expression discipline he has so obviously spent long hours developing, no doubt due to it’s powerful ambiguity/mystery building properties.
    Snake oil? Well, it’s pretty hard not to get the impression that this guy is only into it for the chicks, cash, and adoration – especially when reading testimony from both his own comments about his INFIDELITY to his wife (let’s not forget that this fellow took a vow to maintain a MONOGAMOUS relationship, and betrayed that contract, and has to this date been insolvent regarding that contract, so one can assume his “word” and integrity are at the very least, questionable.) and from the anecdotes of many people both in and out of the oasis organization, from both camps pro or con.
    My personal observation is this: the guy teaches a philosophy that essentially assumes that one doesn’t really have a responsibility to regard with respect the emotions of others when acting in ways that would affect their lives and emotions. That coldness is self absorbtion and is, no doubt, the result of de Ruiter’s own hurts and insecurities suffered as a result of organized religion forcing him to relinquish his self to the christian whole of his youth. Now, he seeks to “create his own self conceived Truth” from a platform that is so individualist that it refuses to accept how much damage it inflicts on others like his wife Joyce. The followers of John, are more than happy to put into practice this all-accepting philosophy because it means that they don’t have to actually take responsibility or think about the consequences or morality of their actions. Since s*&t flows downhill, John worships himself and the truth, his followers worship John, and themselves (which is probably just fine by John), and the rest just have to grin and bear it I guess. But I can’t help wondering: John says that the “Truth” told him to take more wives, betraying that trust, and expects Joyce his wife to accept it, and even embrace it. Hmmmm… My “Truth” is that I needs cash for rent, so maybe I should join de Ruiter’s organization, start embezzling funds – literally stealing from John because my “Truth told me to”, and see how well he accepts THAT. Someday Joyce may take self defence classes and have her “Truth” tell her to tap-dance on his head whilst he travels abroad in countries with undeveloped extradition laws… I wonder how well his cranium would accept THAT!!! Now some may squeal and get all angry at my comparisons here, even call them threatening. But they would be failing to see my point. Adultery is no less a kick in the head than a real kick in the head – regardless of how John de Ruiter wishes to dress it up in bullshit.

  3. The above postings are so misleading and so far away from facts and reality. Most of the information has been distorted and misrepresented.
    I have known John for over seven years and I have not yet met anyone as clean, trustworthy and good as him. No matter what anyone says or believes or would like others to believe, John de Ruiter lives for goodness and not for his personal benefits. He is in relationship with two very beautiful, very good, and intelligent woman, who know exactly what they are doing. Anyone who spends time around them and can see witnesses the positive change in them. They are becoming more lovely and amazing as time passes. They are such sweet beings, that the ones who are touched by them are grateful and uplifted and inspired to be more real and to change and live in a better way. Who of the people who have posted the above comments have witnessed their relationships? Who can judge John and how he is being in it? John is one of maybe three to five people that I have met, who is a real and a good husband rather than a “mostly seeking his advantage” or worse abusive husband. John lives what he knows, not social conventions, norms or what others expect of him. John does not condone polygamy for anyone who cannot even be fully in one relationship, which makes only sense. Who of us is fully with and only good towards our spouse? Joyce chose not to stay with John. That was her choice and it is understandable. Many have felt for her. Who can tell what would have been if she had stayed with John? She did not get what she wanted anymore, but did John? The difference is that John does not live for what he wants but for what he knows to be true.
    It is not only women who are seeking John’s support but an equal amount of men. In fact, there are people of all ages and many nationalities attending meetings with him.
    John teaches that as we move on we become even responsible for our thinking and our dreams at night. We are responsible for everything that it in our care, which includes all of our personal existence but for most of us way more than that. There are hierarchies for everything. Someone’s feelings have value if they are coming from a true place. If they are disappointed egoistic wants, they have no value. There are also things, that have more value than feelings.
    John’s teachings are clear and simple and only good. Most of it is easy to understand.
    Those who are spending time with John are benefiting from his presence and his way of being and how he supports people. Those who are open to him receive endless amounts of help, love and kindness to a degree that makes my heart cry at times. It is goodness that flows through him whether he communicates in words or in silence. There are many ways of communication and we all have experienced that. Nobody that I have known in all these years has reported that they are upset or that they have cried because they are not “getting it”. There are many reasons why people cry ranging from sadness to relieve, to rapture and being deeply touched.
    Meeting John is not about worshipping of any kind. In fact if anyone worships John as a person John does not give any energy to that at all. On the contrary, John does not encourage worship of himself or our own personalities. He encourages to be what we know and to live how we know to live.
    He is the one man I have met who has never been flirtatious or manipulative in any way. If a woman or a man throws themselves at John, John will be only real and he won’t let them stay there. He will help them lovingly until they are able to walk on their own feet according to what they know to be true. John never encourages anyone to believe what he or anyone says. He only encourages to believe only what we know to be true.
    In the most kind way John gives love and real support to people without making it about getting something in return for it. He is so clean.
    Posting comments on someone you might have met for only two hours or not at all or whom you simply don’t understand can create a lot of distortion and mislead others. You may wish to think about that and be more careful about your public communication in future. Words like the ones on the postings above may not seem to have much importance to some people, but they may weigh very heavy, even if it not obvious right away. Such communication may contribute to the burden of the world rather than lifting it. It is good to take responsibility for what we say and write and communicate to others especially, if we communicate somewhere as public as the Internet. It is also good to inform ourselves, to open our minds and listen first before we go out to criticize with sharpness. In fact, it is never good to be sarcastic and mean. I think we all know that.
    If we don’t understand something, we don’t need to cover the perceived lack by creating our own story about it and then judging someone based on our own made up facts. To present all of that as truth does not make our self created story true. It is never true to steal either. We all know that. Truth is simply what is true, which might be simpler than you think it is. Truth is not a mystery. The basics are very simple.
    Anyone who would like to find out what is true about John for themselves can start here http://www.johnderuiter.com, open their hearts and minds and really listen. Something inside of them may hear and then over time begin to really see and really understand.
    To post something that comes from what we really understand based on true and good judgment will have true value and will contribute positively to the world. Before then – do we have a right to make statements? What do such statements achieve? If we are honest with ourselves and we realize something that we had not seen previously we can change according to your realization. Then we will have an opportunity to correct and do it again – differently.
    I look forward to more postings. Postings based on real facts, understanding and open minded good judgement.
    Disclaimer: This posting represents my personal understanding and experience with John and has not been influenced or condoned by John de Ruiter or Oasis.

  4. Reality is what we make of it. Personally, I don’t like cults of any kind, including organized religions. Self-appointed spiritual gurus like de Ruiter are consummate performers; their follwers are their audiences, their groupies. It’s interesting to me how much some people need to follow, need someone to give them answers, tell them what to do and not to do to be good people. It’s like my mother and the Pope. Feh.

  5. Reality is not what we make of it. Reality is what truly is without distortion or cover. Our experience of reality may be what we make of it. Reality stands on its own.
    Having no experience or understanding of something does not mean that it does not exist.
    The arrogance of some people is shocking.

  6. So John didn’t give his word to Joyce that he would honour and cherish her in a monogamous relationship till death, and then break that vow and demand her acceptance, regardless of the emotional consequences to Joyce? So John didn’t just go out, get his rocks off with two hot young blondies while his wife lay in bed in the next room weeping?

  7. Note the long period of time it seems to be taking the de Ruiter follower to reply. The Oasis Inc. official responses department must be in the back room working overtime to try and author a suitably convincing response…

  8. Life is simply a mirror to ourselves and when we have energy about something or someones behavior it is simply because something within ourselves is being triggered. Rather than be satisfied by a obvious personal opinion about someone else’s behavior, why not consider looking into the mirror and asking why it even matters at all what de Ruiter is doing with his life. You will probably find more there than you expect and can begin the personal discovery of why that energy is there in the first place.
    I am not a memeber of de Ruiter’s community or a supporter of his philosophy. Simply a regular guy searching for my own understanding of this wonderful thing called life.

  9. That’s cute and all Mark, but what exactly is your point, and how does it relate to the discussion at hand concerning John de Ruiter and his cult?

  10. I have been listening to tapes by De Ruiter given me by a friend and can’t say I was blown away. Some sounded good to me, others pretty flat. I think there is truth in lots of what people are saying, positive and negative. I wonder though about why we are so quick to condemn him. I was most taken with Mark’s comment in this respect. Am I any better? I can’t claim that, so it is better to ask why I might get angry at him.
    Really? If the worst of the stories regarding the sexual stuff are true he committed adultery and shacked up with two attractive women, then lied about it. No long lines of abused devotees or their children. Of course for those concerned it’s hard to bear perhaps but much of the emotion seems a bit overdone really. On the abuse scale of teachers it rates about a 2.5.
    The real quandry is his claim that all of this is ‘true’ in the human and ultimate sense of the word. Tough that one. Of course no one can dispute that really. Everyone has to accept their own truth that is inside. If he is living the truth, one beyond our understanding, then shame on us for our anger. If he is in denial and lost to the ‘T’ruth, then pity on him and all those who follow him back into the wilderness. If he comits crimes against the law, punish him. If he commits a crime agianst the truth, in his own words that would be the loss of his own real self, the worst possible punishment.
    After some research, I feel happy to let him get on with his life. He does not limit the truth, so lets not limit it to him or his behaviour. Either way, can I realistically feel anything for him other than compassion?
    Please note I have not ever paid any money to him or invested any realy emotional energy in his ‘thing’ so this letting go of my blame of him might be a tad easier than for others!!
    Peace to all.

  11. I, on the other hand, have spoken firsthand with MANY ex-deruiterites who all claim that he concretely advises them of specific actions to take in life, like leaving their spouses, for example. That squarely places him in a position of responsibility, and it is wise for us all to dissect his every move, and every word, as he is dangerous to his followers.
    Family members should do everything they can to research and discredit this bozo. He IS wrecking lives and the people who have told me this DO blame him because he gave them direct orders to do disastrous things to their own lives. He is running a cult and this has NOTHING to do with religious tolerance.

  12. As a direct relative of the “inner circle” I can personally guarantee that everything coming out of JDR’s mouth is pure, unadulterated crap. Sure, he spouts the universal “truths” every other “en(b)lightened” being from time immemorial has spouted, but ask yourselves the following: What is the likelier story – that he is in direct communion with the esoteric fountain of “Truth” and received tuition directly from Jesus Christ (this story btw has changed in the interim)and that his actions emanate and are dictated by the Truth he so profoundly and completely embodies, or that he’s really just an exploitive sociopath from the Canadian hinterland who came up with a great marketing ploy (selling a product you can’t define) and is busy enjoying the fruits of his labours; namely sex, money, power?
    As Paul Atreides has elucidated, he is affecting lives, he is directing people’s actions, and his influence is destructive. He has counseled divorce, departure, disenfranchisement, and practices “excommunication” when people do not toe the line. Is it any wonder then that “John the Philosopher” (his most recent titular metamorphosis)needs vicious Rottweilers and an endless array of legal disclaimers to protect his “teachings”? Man, I’d be scared too.

  13. I can personally tell you that marriages do end over his influence on one of the partners. JDR is a blue eyed, manipulative, hypnotist. A champion manipulator. Many of his followers are chronically confused, believing they’ve heard something profound, when much of what is spoken is common sense, or has commonly been spoken by others, or is complete, unintelligible gibberish. Unfortunately, people avoid getting real help for personal and emotional issues, believing he’s the answer.
    The problem is that you can’t save someone from themselve. Some people are so desperate to believe in something or someone, they can’t even question what they think they know about John. It’s a big shame, the effect it has on those of us who aren’t “believers”. But maybe these people’s path is to go through this journey with John, until he someday crashes and burns or they come to a place where they feel the confidence to move on?
    If JDR has such insight into Truths’ that are only revealed to him, then why doesn’t he put it all down into a document that intelligent people or maybe the UN could evaluate, so it can be used for the benefit of all mankind? This won’t happen, however. Because there is no “integrated philosophy”, and anyone who keeps their sense about them and isn’t overtaken by the blue eyes and trance state, will get dizzy trying to find either what is unique or to make sense in what’s being spoken. It’s much more profitable to sell tapes, videos, and adoring pictures of himself.
    I prefer to remain anonymous for now, but may perhaps contact others who may reply to my post.

  14. Well put anon. It’s not like I’ve ever seen JDR slingin’ soup at the Mustard Seed Church, or doing ANY charitable work whatsoever. His flock are self absorbed yuppies lounging on their thermarest chairs waiting for the answer from someone their sense of aesthetics respond to. The guys should just come out of the closet and the ladies should just outright hit on him. It’d be closer to the real truth – pure neediness.
    He’s nobody’s hero. It’s not like we see him using his influence for good like lobbying Ottawa for gay rights, or getting the CBC/Telus Lockouts resolved. It’s not like we ever see him showing up to Lake Wabamun to sling oil cleanup. He’s a fraud, and a drug to a bunch of sucker’s worthy of Ringling.

  15. Bang on – from both posters, anon and Paul.
    You guys have hit it on the head – neediness.
    This when aggravated by the willingness to utterly abdicate any sense of responsibility for oneself makes for a noxious brew of exploitation – John gets the dough, the girls, and the adoration,and everyone gets what? Truth? If anyone can tell me just what exactly that is, I’ll freakin’ bow down and suck on his/her toes in reverence ’til I expire. But of course, that term is never defined ’cause if it were, there’d be no more hook and bye-bye good times, hello work. And that kids is the TRUTH.

  16. I have a friend who has recently started attending John’s meetings. Now that my friend has been convinced of the existence of a universal “Truth”, my friend seems more and more compelled to continue these meetings, in a quest to understand Truth. My intuition has been screaming that I should be helping my friend out of this trap.
    For those of you who have had relatives “follow” John, can you offer any advice as to how to address this with your relative without making him/her defensive? John seems to teach that intuition is a false manifestation of truth, so I am worried that when I tell my friend that my intuition is warning me about John, my friend may dismiss that.

  17. Concerned,
    Basically there is nothing you can do. If your friend sees value in what John is saying, the only thing you can do is hold on – this is going to be one hell of a ride!
    Remember the adage: “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink”. Your friend will have to figure this out for him/herself. Eventually it will happen, but the damage and disillusionment that will accompany this revelation will be considerable. In other words, get ready to lose a friend. Of course, that is exactly what John’s agenda is, especially given the fact that his new “college” is nearing completion. He needs all the neophytes, or more correctly, all the neophytes MONEY he can get.
    For what it’s worth, you may want to point out that the universal Truth your friend has discovered is exactly that – UNIVERSAL. It is not the sole domain of John, nor his group, nor other self-styled “masters” of his ilk. It is yours, mine, and your friends’ to discover, explore and enjoy as we/he/she see fit. Any other way of looking at universals fragments, and thereby denies their fundamental universality prima facie.
    My only other suggestion would be to stay in contact. That part of your friend that knows this is bs will eventually awaken and need an anchor in the real world. If you care for this person as you seem to, make sure you are there because he/she is going to need you. Good luck.

  18. My advice is to have a going away party for your friend because there ain’t a single thing you can say or do for them. You can’t even wait for them because it takes most de ruiterites years to wake up and smell the dipshit. Give up on the friend and friendship because those people are emotionally unreliable, manipulative, and destructive – unless you open yourself up to John.
    Bottom line, your pal would be better off hooked on crack or nintendo cause those are easier to quit and you should just get on with your life because religion for a wingnut is WAY more powerful a drug than you or your friendship can ever compete with, and believe me if you don’t open yourself up to John, you will just feel the distance anyways…

  19. Your freind is in no danger from John De Ruiter ,whatsoever , he does not encourage people to leave their partners and Paul Atreides is so far up his own arse that it beggars belife

  20. Phil smoke more crack please… You can’t even come up with a coherent sentence. “beggars belife”? What the heck is THAT? Some new punk band name? I personally know at least 20 EX JDR’s and they ALL tell me that they have been DIRECTLY counselled by John to leave their partners to move to Edmonton. That far outweighs for me your pedantic poetry.
    Are YOU a Johnite desperately trying to hold onto reality? Hey, lemme shave my head, I’ll be your Postcard Jesus and you can gimme all your money moron.

  21. While John doesn’t necessarily represent a physical threat, he is a considerable emotional and psychological threat. Despite what you think, or have been brainwashed into thinking Phil, John does indeed counsel people to leave spouses, boy/girlfriends, and most alarmingly, children.
    If you ever get a chance, ask his wife Benita why she threw her eldest son into the street with $200 and the clothes on his back. Then ask John why he not only condoned this act, but when questioned as to the boy’s ability to “make it” answered: “not likely”. As you are no doubt aware, this boy is now firmly in the grip of the group. Apparently the moral here is “my way, or the highway”. Still think he’s not dangerous?
    Ask her about her other son.
    Ask John why one of the group’s members committed suicide.
    Ask him why he feels it’s necessary to post legal disclaimers all over his meeting rooms and on his website.
    Ask Benita why she doesn’t speak with her parents.
    Ask John why he counseled them to divorce.
    Ask her why she no longer talks to her siblings.
    For that matter, ask any other group member about those waiting back at home and the state of their communications with them.
    Ask his other wife Katrina why she is too scared to leave Edmonton.
    Ask her why she rarely shows up for meetings anymore.
    I think you will find in most cases that people have been psychologically, and/or emotionally coerced into leaving/damaging/altering significant relationships to prostrate themselves at the feet of “truth”.
    If that doesn’t satisfy you, ask him why authorities seized his German meeting earnings recently.
    Ask him why he keeps vicious dogs.
    Ask him why he keeps changing his official designation.
    Ask him about visitations from Jesus.
    Ask him why he needs a “college”.
    Question everything, and then ask yourself if this is how a benevolent “master of truth” behaves.
    More importantly, ask yourself why you are defending John, and what that says about yourself and what you have invested in him.

  22. I’m told John has recently been advising people to stay toghet at all costs. Perhaps he’s been reading these postings? I see that on his website, he has links to places where the word “cult” is defined. I guess it’s a preemptive attempt to convince people that though it (his organization) walks like a duck and quaks like a duck, it’s something other than a duck (cult).
    Withheld, your advice to Phil is appropriate, but in my experience in dealing with a Johnite, reason has no place in these peoples commitment to continue to blind themselves of what is obvious to the rest of us. And defend John they will, regardless of the evidence that is being presented.
    Interesting, when Phil (above) uses the phrase “beggars belief”. This phrase is nonsensical. One can only guess what he means, as, to my knowledge, this is not an accurate use of the word. But isn’t that exactly what JDR does all the time? Using nonsensical language, and it’s only people’s willingness to hold him to a different standard than the rest of us, that keeps them coming back. In other words, if they didn’t already assume that he was somehow exempt from making sense, that it must be soooo profound, and that’s why it doesn’t seem to make any sense. NO, it actually is nonsense, much of the time. This kind of vague language keeps everyone very confused and, in fact, helps to entance or lull the mind into numbness.
    In some cultures, when one gazes into the eyes for long periods of time, esp. if not intimately involved with that person, it’s considered to be robbing the soul. Johnites Love for John to “merge” with them. This is where he basically invades ones energy field with his energy field. He IS very effective, and in fact, very powerful at this. However, I observe that this is when people become Hooked! There becomes some kind of energetic connection that follower may be unaware of, or sees no harm in it. But if they are connected in this way, then are they continuing to follow John out of free will, at this point?
    I heard someone once suggest that he’d put her under his spell. I’m afraid that this was litterally true! It seems his strategy is to travel to other countries, connect with people psychically and get them Hooked, so they will leave family, home and everything else, and move to Edmonton, where they can be a stabble source of income and energy for John. It’s as if he harvests souls! All under the guise of helping the person to Evolve their soul, or even more vague, to “become a real human being” Are the rest of us not real?

  23. Withheld, what are some of the reasons for the questions you pose? Just curious, as I don’t think you’ll get a Johnite to answer you. Do you have insight or opinions about these? I’m not as close to things as you, and am curious. Anon.
    Why did they seize his money in Germany?
    Why is the wife afraid to leave Edmonton and rarely come to meetings any more.
    I’d heard of someone dying, but didn’t know it was a suicide.
    Why is the other wife estranged from siblings and parents?

  24. Greetings Anon,
    I’ve read both your posts and agree wholeheartedly with what you contend regarding reason – it has been utterly suspended in the context of John and his group. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that it is being systematically stamped out – the classic hallmark of any cult.
    This, as you very correctly point out, is symptomatic of the exclusive language John has created to beguile, befuddle, and enslave his minions. The hook? Transcendental knowledge and experience. The line? Truth. The sinker? You already “know” it, you just don’t realize. It is a cliche to be sure, but if history has taught me anything, it’s that it tends to repeat itself.
    John is peddling nothing new, he’s simply packaged the same tired esoteric rhetoric in a new wrapper – Truth. What is Truth? Well according to him, you already “know”. Well, if I “know”, why don’t I know?
    Enter the mental/emotional disequilibrium and the first step in the breakdown of the individual has begun. And who is there to fill this existential vacuum? Well, we all know the answer…
    With regard to Phil, I think he is simply an ignorant individual, uneducated, and overly emotional. Critical thinking is something that must be cultivated. In his case, it obviously hasn’t been. But then (and again you point this out) you don’t need a mind to operate in John’s group – you just need a pocketbook and a willingness to supplicate yourself.
    The “numbness” of mind you mention is interesting in that for many of his followers it manifests not so much as a deadened state of awareness, and more as an acutely focused one. They see/hear/smell/taste/touch nothing (or at best very little) of anything other than John and his “teachings”. As such, I liken the phenomenon more to a drug addiction than a malaise. There is purpose, thought, reflection, emotion in the process that accompanies the addiction, but it is focused and realized only in or about John. All other phenomena in life are rendered meaningless under these conditions, hence the threat he represents.
    I didn’t realize that John was now counseling people to stay together. Apparently Truth has many faces. My experience of him has shown him (and in particular his wife Benita) to be a master manipulator and politician. He has a penetrating understanding of people to be sure, but chooses to use that understanding to manipulate and exploit rather than understand and aid. For her part, Benita is a masterful arguer with a sharp intellect, honed to a razor’s-edge in her legal studies (which she abandoned partway to join John’s group). Truth for her is a sword of Damocles – a threat whereby she can coerce followers into line. Nothing hurts more to a Johnite that to ask: “Why are you acting against what you “know”.” It is a ruthless, but effective tactic put to good use in both their families to say nothing of the many others) to break them up.
    So really, it is possible that someone can fall under John’s “spell”. Whether or not that happens though is a matter of an individuals willingness to let it happen. When they do, they invest in what I liken to a “new identity” for themselves. I can think of nothing more painful to bear than an attack on one’s identity, and no more powerful way to hook a person. It’s worked for years in armies. It’s working for John too…
    Regarding the monies in Germany, bailiffs seized his meeting take because he has failed to pay legally owed taxes for his earnings on those meetings over the last few years.
    Re his wife/wives, I won’t elaborate here. Perhaps she/they would in private. Suffice it to say that one is subjected to considerable coercion and is virtually prohibited from going anywhere or doing anything unless it is specifically warranted by John/group needs. This prohibition extends to family contact of any kind.
    On the suicide, I don’t have all the details. I just got the information that it had taken place from long-standing members who asked that I not repeat it. It is somewhat of a scandal within the group and is not discussed openly. I can say that the legal disclaimers and mental health info posted on the group’s website were the direct result of that suicide.

  25. Withheld,
    Thanks for that update. I question how Benita, with her sharp intellect, can’t realize that much of the time, inspite of many words beeing spoken, nothing is actually being said. Maybe she and others have so much invested in this “religion” that she continues to blind herself?
    So he got busted for being less than squeeky clean. How could that be? I wonder if any of the followers are aware of this? Of course, they will do whatever it takes to blind themselves to it. I was waiting for such realities to happen. Surely there will be more.
    How can this guy prohibit anyone from family contact? Are the girl’s parents completely under the spell too? I guess, since the wives have given up their own careers, now they fall into the “battered wife syndrome” so far as being so dependent on the man, that they don’t see any way out?
    So far as reason is concerned, what mystifies meis that some of these people are intelligent and accomplished. I once read that in the history of the world, no one who was been brain washed has ever believed they were brain washed. And they say that intelligence has nothing to do with it.
    It’s too bad about the suicide. Unfortunately, too often, people who really need prefessional help seek out the likes of John, in place of doing so. And I don’t believe he EVER advises Anyone to do anything for themselves, outside of coming to his meetings.
    I wonder if John realizes what he’s doing? If he thinks he’s as clean and True as the group believes he is? Or if he believes he’s saying something profound, when he speaks in circles, or if it’s just what works to keep some people entranced and bound to him? Is it’s an act, and it’s all about power, adulation and money?
    Best regards,

  26. I have heard it said that we are often much better at fooling ourselves than we are at fooling other people. I would not be surprised if that is the case with John.
    By the way, whether you all realize it or not, you are having this conversation on my weblog: http://www.kalilily.net, on a post I made back in May of 2003. I invite you to scroll up, click on the mountain scene, and find out a little about just who your hostess for this conversation is. Not that it really matters in terms of this conversation; but I invite you over anyway.
    Elaine of Kalilily

  27. I too am deeply indebted and truly appreciate what you are facilitating here Elaine. Apart from the engaging repartee you are hosting, you may well be affording those who are enslaved by John an opportunity to participate in discussions they are otherwise barred from having. It’s a gift whose significance they’ll recognize once they leave the group, and hence, only retrospectively. In addition, this kind of exchange is (at least for me) very cathartic. Again, you have my thanks.

  28. Hi, Elaine. Yes I am indebted also. It’s been valuable to have others, who are closer to the scene, to commiserate with, and to get advice.
    I took your advice and checked out the rest of your site. Very impressive what you’ve done with this little site. You sure are prolific! It’s inspiring to see what one person can do.

  29. I just came across this post today…
    I met John DeRuiter in the fall of 1999 and moved to Edmonton 2 months later. I spent almost 2 years there and attended many meetings.
    Within ourselves we can worship many things but real love is not worship. Worship can bring us so close that we become very disturbed. Real love addresses this disturbance and invites the same within worship.
    Real love is being responsible and it does not need to see something that isnt there. When I went to Edmonton I was trying to worship something, to make myself safe. I wanted safety….from responsibility and accountability. I wanted God to take me into a heaven where I could be free from doubt.
    I heard things about John..I sought out this information…all second hand. That he had met Jesus. That he was Truth. That John was capable of being responsible in a supernatural way. That John was becoming the Saviour of our time. I needed to know one thing….that he could save me…I needed to know I was safe from hell…from pain and suffering….I needed to know I was going with him….that I had a place where he had a place.
    I needed to know there was a meaning to my life…
    My desparation to secure myself almost ended in suicide…I felt I could not leave and there was nowhere to hide. My experience was afflicting…it was a state of needing and wanting to die. It no longer felt like a choice….I was stuck and being torn up inside in a way that I can not relate except to say it was afflicting…like being trapped in a panic attack for over a year….and the things I thought and felt were horrible…
    I came to meetings and demanded his help….his solution….I wanted something in return for my worship and there was nothing. I lost all meaning and descended into a meaningless place where I was a great villian…I was truely hating myself to death.
    His greatest gift was in his manner…throughout this time a saw a person humble himself and admit not his failings, but something else. What he admited into himself was honesty itself, in a remarkable manner… into all situations…..and it was dear. Over time I love him only for this reason…
    he was honest with me…and in that honesty I found his concern for my own responsibility dear to me.
    I realized my grandfather had done the same thing…
    he was worshipped by our family ….he was kind and responsible….he did not abuse his authority….he never “helped” anyone….yet all were lead to something they cherished and admired in his manner.
    John De Ruiter is not a god or a “good” man….he is not a good man….he is a man whose flaws are acknowledged and yet not treated harshly….not overlooked or compensated but addressed in a way that is dear…
    I am writing this and reminded of this quote:
    “Any claim concerning John de Ruiter’s way of being
    and his understanding of the living way of Truth is not to be believed; rather, its authenticity can be
    profoundly recognized and known”
    That is what is not bound and cannot be bound in anyone…
    What binds one to another in a constricting way exists but , if one is dearly honest, the binding can pass away…when that honesty touches both…it is to that one I am grateful…because I thought it was all about myself and John…
    but these things cannot be reconciled…what is already reconciled is dear to me…
    Matt Williams

  30. So, Matt, basically what you are saying is that he couldn’t help you, and was only honest about it after taking your money. Nice that he would tell you that after swiping 5 bux from your wallet after taking advantage of your tender nature by advertising core splitting truth that can help you in your time of need. After all that, he finally let you in on the biggest secret of all, that you have to help yourself, and for that you THANK him?
    Oh boy. Stop thinking in poetry for a start. That’s a good place for anyone to start healing. Get a good job and a cat. Hug a friend, and help a little old lady across the road. Brush your teeth, change your underwear regularly. Have at least one sport, and one artistic hobby. Take a little time to enjoy the simple things in life, like perhaps even just watch a nice video on tv or take a walk by the river.
    These are all things that can immediately improve your life. If your finances are in disarray, balance your checkbook or seek credit counselling. If you are physically ill, get a doctor.
    There are plenty of things that John could have told you, but he chose not to because he already has your money and he doesn’t know shit nor give a shit.
    You are deluded when you say that, “he is a man whose flaws are acknowledged and yet not treated harshly….not overlooked or compensated but addressed in a way that is dear…”
    For the rest of society, who are not poor brainwashed mentally ill people who should by rights be patients seeing phd psychologists instead of Jimmy Bakker, we DO both acknowledge his faults, and we certainly tend to think it neither CUTE nor DEAR. In fact most of us think he’s an idiot – so should you.
    John is a fraudulent feelgood artist for flakes. But thanks for your contribution to the discussion Matt, it’s nice to see that the flock is maintaining its usual sheepish quality. He’s got you so convinced in him that even after he totally lets you down, even after you admit he’s a flawed schlepp, you still “love” him – seemingly even more than yourself.
    Have you ever considered that you yourself may not be mentally/emotionally healthy enough to be recommending anybody to anyone? After all, you spent a full year in a panic attack. You might not be the best expert opinion to rely upon. Indeed your flowery vague poetry seems to indicate that from a mental standpoint, you may not be out of the woods yet, and thus are in no position to be offering recommendations as to what guru “works”.

  31. Hello,
    If someone can be frustrated, if they strike out against another, or themself, if they seek to overpower another or define another for the safety
    of there own self….these are the true misuses of power. When I let myself see what is reconciled, when I allow myself to acknowledge my own misuse of my own power…something that is worth more than me becomes apparent. It brings the clarity that does not need my support. That is why it does not bind anything in me.
    If this is vague then there is a genuine oppritunity for honesty. The weakness you sense in me is real. It was my treatment of this weakness and my misuse of this weakness that hurt me most of all. To know that there is something that does not hurt weakness….that is tender enough to be with and not cause further damage…this is what I have acknowledged in my post.
    This you already know.

  32. Hello,
    If someone can be frustrated, if they strike out against another, or themself, if they seek to overpower another or define another for the safety
    of there own self….these are the true misuses of power. When I let myself see what is reconciled, when I allow myself to acknowledge my own misuse of my own power…something that is worth more than me becomes apparent. It brings the clarity that does not need my support. That is why it does not bind anything in me.
    If this is vague then there is a genuine oppritunity for honesty. The weakness you sense in me is real. It was my treatment of this weakness and my misuse of this weakness that hurt me most of all. To know that there is something that does not hurt weakness….that is tender enough to be with and not cause further damage…this is what I have acknowledged in my post.
    This you already know.

  33. Unfortunately, virtually everything Matt has written above is seriously misguided gibberish. Most of it reads like a first trip with the thesaurus. The only real way one can respond to such a convoluted posting that leads nowhere is to break it down, sentence for sentence, translating it term for term.
    Let’s start with Matt’s first statement, which is:
    “If someone can be frustrated, if they strike out against another, or themself, if they seek to overpower another or define another for the safety
    of there own self….these are the true misuses of power.”
    You have lumped a lot of things in this sentence, each of which you characterize as “true misuses of power”. Let’s look at these supposed “misuses”.
    a) “If someone can be frustrated…these are the true misuses of power”
    -This statement is ridiculous. We are all frustratable at times, because we are limited beings who take risks. Everyone experiences frustration in life, but it is hardly a “misuse of power”. That’s like saying the kid who is frustrated at failing his math test is a “misuse of power”.
    b) “if they strike out against another”
    -it might be simply self defense…
    c) “or themselves”
    -killing or hurting one’s own self is more of a personal choice borne by people who have emotional healthcare needs. It is something to be compassionate and sensitive towards, hardly something to be characterized as a “misuse of power”. It’s not like we tell people who get tattoos that they should be ashamed for misusing their power over their bodies. Even our prisons are no longer prisons, they have – thankfully, evolved into “corrections facilities” indicating a value on forgiveness and the fact that we are all capable of falling.
    d) ” if they seek to overpower another or define another for the safety of there own self”
    -At every level of human experience there are necessary moments of overpowering individuals who threaten the safety of our own persons and in many cases, the greater community at large. Indeed, for my own safety and the safety of my 6 yr old son, I tend to define others all the time. The boy’s teacher, for example, is defined very well as a nurturing, positive educator in his life. The pedophile around the corner is defined as a threat to the safety of a LOT of people’s selves. Get used to people judging you for your negative actions Matt. The only reason you don’t judge John for the things he’s done can only be either because:
    a) it didn’t happen to you so you don’t care.
    b) you sympathize as a fellow adulterer or someone who thinks they could be one?
    c) you are unbelieveably naive about negative consequences.
    d) you haven’t got morals. And if you aint got a moral compass, you should be worried. But then again, maybe you already are worried and are in denial here on this board. Maybe that one year panic attack was the one healthy shred of your nervous system kicking in, screaming loudly that you are a few beers short of the proverbial sixpack. Maybe that panic attack was one little bit of conscience kicking in saying, “Matt, stop lusting after little boys, or your best friend’s wife, or that bag of coke…and stop thinking about plunging a knife into your sister”
    e) you don’t think adultery is bad. Again see above for post on morals.
    Certainly it’s NOT a “true misuse of power” to judge others who, like John, have proven through their own actions that they are untrustworthy and a threat to the safety of others. You just obviously don’t like the idea that you may be judged. Too bad so sad.
    Matt then follows his opener up with the statement, ” When I let myself see what is reconciled, when I allow myself to acknowledge my own misuse of my own power…something that is worth more than me becomes apparent.”
    I’m not sure how to interpret that particular gibberish simply because there is no detail in the poetry. The word “reconcile” is defined by Merriam Webster’s as “to restore to friendship or harmony”, so I can only assume that Matt you mean to say that when you see harmony after the battle, after all the bullshit, you can finally get to the point where you can admit to having taken advantage of your power to the point of misuse, and through that NORMAL EVERYDAY regret, you see that there’s something bigger out there than you? Good grief. That’s not something that you should need a guru for. That’s normal regret. It makes normal people change for the better. In John’s case, he lives in denial because he doesn’t actually recognize his misuse of power. In the case of his infidelity, for example, John still thinks he has nothing to regret, and neither obviously, do you. That’s the problem with John and Johnites. You don’t really have consciences that the rest of us can rely on in any way, no matter how light. The average Johnite’s effete intellectualized selfishness is up front, but your lack of ability to guage right and wrong and to take responsibility is what really makes the average Johnite’s personal character incredibly suspect and weak. Every Johnite I know has marital problems in the extreme – unless the partner “gives themselves to John”
    You then state that ” It brings the clarity that does not need my support. That is why it does not bind anything in me. ” Which I presume means that; discovering that there exists something bigger than you (and your selfishness) is something that is true and clear, regardless of whether or not you agree (sheep), and that somehow you are free because of it’s “truthiness”. The only problem with that is the question of RESPONSIBILITY. Once an individual recognizes a potentially harmful situation, it is our moral obligation to act in a responsible fashion. John had adulterous sexual intercourse in the very moment in which he should have been morally aware of the negativity with which he was operating and when made even more aware of the emotional hurt he was causing his wife and children. This is especially problematic if he’s supposedly so intelligent and caring and a leader of a spiritual group (obviously a cult in his case though…). He could have taken a moment or two to care enough to keep his pecker in his pants, and when you apologize for him, you make the rest of us sick with your morality in much the same way that a pedophile sickens the healthy heart.
    Plus I will point out that when you say, “That is why it does not bind anything in me.” I just view that comment as yet another abdication of your moral responsibility to actually LIVE ethically in full view of the truth – as everyone sees it. Not just your own stunted version of the truth as validated by an adulterous cult leader who has your money.
    “If this is vague then there is a genuine oppritunity for honesty.” It’s vague. And misguided. As for your idea that vagueness presents opportunities for the truth to be known, that’s as ridiculous a statement as any could be. In order for truth and honesty to occur, there must be clear communication with very little vagueness. Vagueness is the last thing that anyone finds useful in couple’s counselling, for example. The only people who find vagueness useful are politicians, cult leaders, and snake oil merchants.
    “The weakness you sense in me is real. It was my treatment of this weakness and my misuse of this weakness that hurt me most of all. ”
    -Yeah Matt, this is the only thing you have written that makes any sense at all, and it’s still only half right because chances are it was John’s misuse of your weakness that will hurt you most of all.
    “To know that there is something that does not hurt weakness….that is tender enough to be with and not cause further damage…this is what I have acknowledged in my post.”
    -I presume you are in this statement, extolling the praises of John as the force that supposedly is tender enough to be with and supposedly not cause further damage. Well, John and his teachings do cause damage. His teachings separate people from the greater public and even more tragically, often from their loved ones. Matt, you should know that there are lots of things in the world that do not hurt weakness. Those things are usually charitable enough to not require cash at the door. Those things are usually loving enough to not require that one distance themselves from loved ones – or their hard earned cash. John takes advantage of weakness – exploits it for his own gain. All just because you find his baleful stare convincing, and his vague non-answers equally duping. Rational people like me just figure folks like you are simply in the closet, and find John unbelievably attractive. So perhaps maybe a boyfriend would make a wonderful addition to your life. There’s nothing to be ashamed of if you simply followed John because you thought he was sexy. You wouldn’t be the first person to be seduced by a powerful figure. Aesthetics work on a non-sexual level as well. Perhaps you just love the way the guy looks and he could sell you tickets to your own mother’s funeral. Lot’s of good people have been duped that way. That’s why we have laws.
    Finally, you end with the incredibly pedantic line, “This you already know.”, which sounds like some priest in church at the end of a reading from the Bible. It has the same tone as the old Catholic’s, “This is the word of the Lord” as if simply saying it makes it so. Actually Matt, I DON’T already “know” the drivel you posted. I KNOW that you are a deluded pitiable sheep in dire need of PHD psychiatric therapy, and NO I don’t think simple counselling will do.
    And you should make a healthy start by despising creeps like John and ceasing to preach on his behalf. Your defense of his conduct is more than enough indication that you are deeply confused. The flowery prose you have built using terms you don’t even know the meaning of indicates that you simply don’t have the lexicon to heal yourself, and it further indicates that you are quite separated from reality and general society. Again, I urge you to immediately seek professional help, and definitely stay away from drugs and alcohol. Not that I am against them, personally I recommend drugs and alcohol to just about any normal healthy person as a great way to occasionally blow off steam from a good balanced life, but quite simply, in your case you are not in a good healthy mental state, and your panic attacks indicate a potential physical condition which could be greatly exacerbated by malnutrition, drugs, or alcohol. Since you also have to give the same caution to your emotional health, I would also make the same recommendation vis a vis religious cult leaders. You definitely shouldn’t take them either, especially at this tender time Matt.

  34. A healthy start is to begin looking at yourself…
    Other people and their “defects”, like the ones I could invent in you, I can’t love…
    Its not what you are saying, or even from where it is coming that is a problem…
    The problem is mine…if I choose to make it so
    Which I refuse to do.

  35. Well Matt, you’ve just illustrated my point. Johnite’s simply don’t have enough spine for the truth, neither to hear it, nor speak it. Instead of responding to my well thought out analysis in detail, the best you can do is tell us that you can’t love others and their defects – especially the ones you would like to invent. Your cowardice in backing down from discussing my points and dishonesty in acting as if are amazing. And indeed the problem is yours, and your myopic delusional idea that you can simply “choose” to wish it away is equally misguided. No wonder you devoted 2 years to at the feet of John, worshipping some dude.
    In addition Matt, you are promoting John here in this forum, so you have to be reasonable and expect that people are going to levy judgments. If you really believe in the “truth” then defend clearly and understandably. If you can’t, then perhaps you should NOT be promoting John, and that’s what this debate is about. When you say that “A healthy start is to begin looking at yourself…” I can see the bitterness in those words, and yet you still don’t actually have the courage to get into it here with me regarding these observations and speculations that I have made. While I do agree that it is a good thing to look at one’s own self as a place to start, I hardly see how your comment relates to the discussion at hand, especially since I am not a Johnite…
    When you say, “Its not what you are saying, or even from where it is coming that is a problem…” you betray a profound ignorance of what has been said in the first place. First of all, your bitterness is directly stemming from an anger over what I have said here – you just don’t have a clue how to respond, other than to abdicate and withdraw. Second of all, you haven’t a clue where “it is coming from”, and even if you did, you wouldn’t have the spine to say it.

  36. As the owner of this weblog, I’m going to intrude here and remind everyone that we all “see things as WE are, not necessarily as THEY are.” Fragile personalities often hold onto stronger ones for support rather than (or before they) take the difficult road of strengthening their own. As someone who tends to mistrust the motives of most authority figures, it’s clear what my take is on John. However, keep in mind that I moderate these comments, and if I think attacks are getting too personal, I will exercise my option to delete them. I would prefer that commenters use this space in a positive way — to encourage autonomy and self-determination as a way to enlightenment rather than following the notions of a leader of any kind. But keep it off the personal level, please.

  37. Freemanwarrior,
    Here is the end portion of my original post:
    “What binds one to another in a constricting way exists but , if one is dearly honest, the binding can pass away…when that honesty touches both…it is to that one I am grateful…because I thought it was all about myself and John…”
    Kindness is worth following….strength that arises from anything else is cruel when it meets that which it cannot master.

  38. Hello again Freemenwarrior,
    I just wanted to say that through our exchange, I have had to reevaluate why I posted my personal story here in the first place. Talking with you has been a good and it has been good to meet you. In our arguement, I can see how I have participated. So I will say I am sorry for any hard feelings I have caused and all the best to you. I realize you are indeed a friend first.

  39. Let me clarify: Any person is welcome to post his/her own story. That’s often the best way to make a point. I’m just asking that those who post here refrain from getting confrontational with those who do not agree with them. Give your perspective but don’t denigrate other people. Heh. Except John, of curse. 🙂 Questioning his honesty and morality was what my post was about in the first place.

  40. As much as I hate to offend someone, I simply had to speak my mind on what I see in Matt’s writing. One can call it confrontational but when confronted with a phenomenon like “de ruiter”, I have a tendency towards zero patience regarding the usual vagueness that John himself uses. When I saw Matt use it, I naturally and reasonably trashed it point for point. If that trashes Matt himself (namely his personal character) point for point, that was never my intention. However, if that is the end result – it would indicate that too much of Matt’s character is mirroring John’s at that point.
    Further, in regards to Matt’s latest addition to the discussion, “Kindness is worth following….strength that arises from anything else is cruel when it meets that which it cannot master.” I note the overwhelmingly common sense nature regarding this statement, and I also strongly note that this statement in no way relates to John de Ruiter, a man who in no way exemplifies kindness.
    He does not participate in charitable functions whatsoever, his for profit scam cult breaks up families and destroys lives, all for the bargain basement price of his wife’s dignity and family. That isn’t kind, and it indicates just what kind of a person he is. Matt, you would be foolish to take my words as a confrontation when I say that you follow an unkind man who is unfit to lead anyone spiritually.
    Finally, I also fully recognize that this person named “Matt” is just as likely a fictional creation of the de Ruiter OASIS group. Feelings hurt? Maybe? Truth? If he’s an adult, discussing adult things here, he has to have a thick skin if he’s gonna participate basically representing John. It’s like being the one McDonald’s rep at a PETA convention – he might have a hard time finding righteous arguments…

  41. I am a real person who left Edmonton in 2003. My name is Matt Williams and I live in Hope, BC, Canada with my wife Michelle who I met at John’s meetings in 1999….I started an Internet Cafe here 2 years ago and its doing well…its small but managable. As time goes past, my encounters in Edmonton are becoming more of a dream. What is left over is heart template for me to understand that I am not alone in struggling to do my best and at the same time experiencing a deep sense of failure as it seems my best, when weighed against the ultimate good, is not good enough.
    When I was young the first person I really followed in an archetypal way was Johnny Cash. I was maybe 10 years old and I could experience something in him that made me feel something valuable in myself. I went to see him and at the end of the show he gave a few autographs, and one he gave to me. After that, not sure why, I moved on.
    I was thinking about the similarities between Johnny Cash and John DeRuiter. What was charitable was the little things they did that showed love. Like the autograph. I played some songs on guitar and sang in a metting in Edmonton and it was It told me that I had meaning. Because I trusted their strength deeply, felt its goodness, I also trusted when they let me know, that I existed.
    And noone can argue for the the state of there souls…gods or devils. But those who have experienced love…they know these are fellow human beings who too are struggling…and yet they always mention that there is a higher calling on everyone’s life. A call to be gentle with yourself and with others…a call to love God….a call to trust yourself and work through your weaknesses…
    Johnny Cash is worshipped to a larger extent than is John Deruiter….he had a community of family and friends that his job sustained and still sustains after his death…he also had a house in Jamaica and lived a wealthy man…he was the center of life for thousands of people and was known and listened to by millions of people….he was a true christian in that he spoke of his love for a man he never met but felt the worth of that man and how that was the most important thing in his life…that without knowing the life and real love of Jesus, a man, he would not have come to know his own worth as a man…in the end, his courage and love outweighs his mistakes and flaws….it is awesome to see that shining through…
    So yes, I am saying there is no difference….two men in whom you can see something meaningful…and there very mistakes and flaws make them men, not gods or devils…
    I just watched a documentary on Johnny Cash…many people interviewed and the meaning he brought to there lives is undeniable…the love they feel for him is healthy and enriches there life…as Kris Kristoferson said “Bob Dylan said the best thing about Johnny Cash….he’s like the Nothern Star….you can guide your ship by him…”
    Here a great song by Johnny called “No Earthly Good”
    Come hear me good brothers come here one and all
    Don’t brag about standing or you’ll surely fall
    You’re shinin’ your light yes and shine if you should
    You’re so heavenly minded and you’re no earthly good
    No earthly good you are no earthly good
    You’re so heavenly minded you’re no earthly good
    You’re shinin’ your light yes and shine if you should
    You’re so heavenly minded and you’re no earthly good
    Come here me good sisters you’re salt of the earth
    If your salt isn’t salted then what is it worth
    You could give someone a cool drink if you would
    You’re so heavenly minded and you’re no earthly good
    No earthly good you are no earthly good
    You’re so heavenly minded you’re no earthly good
    You could give someone a cool drink if you would
    You’re so heavenly minded and you’re no earthly good
    If you’re holdin’ heaven then spread it around
    There are hungry hands reaching up here from the ground
    Move over and share the high ground where you stood
    So heavenly minded and you’re no earthly good
    No earthly good you are no earthly good
    You’re so heavenly minded you’re no earthly good
    Move over and share the high ground where you stood
    So heavenly minded and you’re no earthly good
    No earthly good…

  42. should have read the lyrics before I posted…I got them off a lyric site….
    heres a better rendition of this song that I’ve written down from the actual Cash song from the new release of his personal tapes…
    No Earthly Good
    Come heed me my brothers, come heed one and all
    Don’t brag about standing or you’ll surely fall
    Your shining your light and shine it you should
    But your so heavenly minded your no earthly good
    If your holding heaven then spread it around
    Theres hungry hands reaching up here from the ground
    Move over and share the high ground where you stood
    So Heavenly minded, you’re no earthly good
    The gospel aint gospel until it is spread
    But how can you share it where you’ve got you’re head?
    There’s hands that reach out, for a hand, if you would
    So heavenly minded your no earthly good
    If your holding heaven then spread it around
    Theres hungry hands reaching up here from the ground
    Move over and share the high ground where you stood
    So Heavenly minded, you’re no earthly good

  43. First off, letting you play one song is a joke. John’s meetings USED to have lots of different people playing music and sharing – that is until John recognized that other people were becoming the “rock stars” stealing his thunder. Interesting that you consider letting an artist play a song to be “charity”.
    Second, there is a MAASSSIVE difference between John and Johnny Cash. While I do agree that both men are “entertainers”, Johnny Cash had actual insight and humility, and was willing to give detail concerning his beliefs, convictions, and statements. Johnny Cash would NEVER have called himself “core splitting truth”, and I seriously doubt that Johnny Cash would have ever bothered with the likes of de Ruiter. Saying there is no difference between Johnny Cash and the biggest spiritual con-man in Canada is both insulting and truly dumb.
    Johnny Cash spent his life reaching out to everyday folk, travelling without big security (unlike John), talking to everyday people in bars, hotels, prisons, etc. The whole time, he never ONCE professed to have the answers. John does, after all – he’s core splitting truth!
    The very song you posted seems to be a direct criticism of so called spiritualists like John de Ruiter – so obsessed with their own “faith sales”, so obsessed with their own idea of god and “truth”, that they need to sack 2 identical twin sisters in the same home as his wife for his own sick perverted pleasure, all while supposedly being god’s chosen vessel of truth. The same truth he charges MONEY for. The same truth that made people leave their families or kill themselves.
    No Matt, you certainly haven’t said a thing here that convinces me you aren’t seriously misguided.
    Here’s a good question: In real detail, grammatically correct plain English, tell us why you no longer follow John?

  44. Hey Freemenwarrior,
    That is a good question.
    I left everything behind in Toronto and took a bus to Edmonton. I left it to the community there to accept and support my decision. When I was accepted, I continued to live in a state of delusion, shuning my personal responsibility to myself and others. I made myself a part of someone else’s life (John Deruiter) without his invitation, and tried to make his strength and position my own. It didn’t work.
    When I left Edmonton, I left a tab of money owed to Oasis Inc. (unpaid retreat fees) What I realize is that I wasn’t following anything but my own self directed agenda, which was just plainly being dishonest. I see myself then as a stalker…someone who sees the light in another and mistakenly believes this light is personally for them…it was akin to that…not very nice to see, but it was that way. It would be like me talking to you at your workplace, and one day showing up at your door and walking into your house , not even asking “Wheres my room?”….just taking one….and then going into the fridge and drinking out of the milk jug!
    The meetings are constantly drawing in new people, some misguided like me, some completely guided by something more realistic.
    The people who are truely with John are not following him. And they are probally few. They are part of his life, and he is a part of theirs, naturally. He has a family. I am not saying there are not “followers” in Edmonton, and people who try to belong to something in an unrealistic way. And this is the hardest lesson to learn and maybe the most common one for followers.
    “Profound Reality is inviolable and unshakeable. Take care of what you put your feet into.”
    Getting back to the Johnny Cash comparison, he left his first wife for June Carter. It worked for everyone in its own way, including his children.
    What I came to see is that, like Johnny Cash, I can enjoy his ability and his gifts as a human being. But these are not my gifts and I cannot expect these gifts to supplement me in any way. They belong to the one who earned them.
    I am not saying there are not false prophets because there most definitely are. But the question I have for you is this….
    What would a genuine prophet do in this world?

  45. Actually, Matt asks an provocative question, but I think “prophet” is not the right word. Let’s assume there are no prophesies that can be made; let’s assume life is what we make it and make of it. So, perhaps the question is “what would a truly good, holy individual do in the world as it currently is?” Become like Mother Theresa? The Dalai Lama? The Berrigan Brothers? Someone like Jesus would be on the street homeless or in a mental institution or living at home with his folks. As for DeRuiter, rather than associate the word “prophet” with him, I would link him with “profiteer.”
    I look forward to hearing what you all think a contemporary holy man or woman might be like — or have to be like, given the tenor of the times.

  46. Matt, I am still having major problems with the extreme contradictions in your statements. It’s wholesale dishonest for you to pretend that John advertises no invitation to follow him. You may have sought out spritualists as some kind of wierd non-standard form of personal therapy, but regardless – you found John due to good advertising. “I made myself a part of someone else’s life (John Deruiter) without his invitation” is just about as far from the TRUTH as anything can get. This is a man who has a professional marketing machine behind him, advertising himself as TRUTH ITSELF. Surely you can see the difference between that and Johnny Cash marketed as a simple Rock n’ Roller…
    Indeed, your own actions show a level of dishonesty with yourself and others that I find truly uncomfortable. You act as if John didn’t invite you, and that he has much to offer – your contention is that you did learn much at his feet and that your are mighty grateful for what you learned, but yet at the same time you teach us a completely different message when you skip out on the bill with OASIS. Pardon me Mr. Thief, but you are either Mr. Thief or Mr. Liar. You can’t have it both ways. One cannot escape that conclusion, based on your statements. Evidently, you don’t value the teachings, nor your own integrity. You racked up a bill. Pay it off deadbeat. You’ve had over 2 years and since your business is doing well, you have really had no excuse in avoiding it now have you? Even if one assumes a certain amount of clemency due to possible financial hardship, I doubt you have made any actual arrangements to pay, which would be the normal course of action for an ethical man in trouble.
    Actions speak louder than words Matt, and your actions tell us the REAL value you place on de Ruiter; it also tells us that your praise for him is disingenuous and I suspect your saying it only serves to make YOU feel better about yourself somehow.
    In regards to the ridiculous question of what a holy man should “be like”, or what characteristics they should have, I can only state that anyone who thinks they can tell you a full answer to that question is the LAST person you want to listen to. It’s pretty easy though, to tell when a person ISN’T acting very holy. One indicator is when they stink their married dinky into twin sister pinky in the family home, mere meters away from dutiful committed wifey! This is elementary basic ethics. At the very least, I can say with a bunch of certainty that anyone who DOESN’T get that up front I would suspect isn’t “prophet” material…

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